The Fear, the Flow & the Front Flip

Verbatim transcript (Groq whisper-large-v3-turbo, corrected). Speaker labels assigned by transcript alignment; cross-talk spans flagged. Timestamps are paragraph-start, mm:ss.

Guests: Tomas "Tom" Acherer, Aleksander "Aleks" Acherer, Rocco Sotomayor. Host: Michi Rossmeier.

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Michi Rossmeier: [00:00] In surfing the lineup is when you're sitting there waiting for your turn to catch a wave and perform. Now here we are not just looking at the ocean, it's not about waiting to perform, we're looking inside and we're looking how your skills, your body and your mind line up to experience something that some athletes just experience a few times a year, a season, and that is flow state, peak performance state. I am Michi Rossmeier, a wingfoiler, outdoor, and I'm a coach, and I have tried to find out over the past years what separates those athletes who

[00:55] perform to those who don't. And it is never just talent or fitness and it's also not just luck. It is the state in which they are before they perform or while they perform. In today's first episode I'm sitting together with Tomas Acherer, Aleksander and Rocco Sotomayor, good long year friends of mine and right now some of the top athletes in the GWA world tour, and we explore things like what happens when you crash, how to perform in competition, how to perform in general, about injuries, about the mental states of everything works and nothing works,

[01:44] about ego and about whatever else comes along. Okay guys, so welcome, this is the well starting point, the first edition of this podcast or whatever, wherever it will go, right? And I'm very happy that we can do that together, it's really cool, we know each other really well. Yeah, thank you Rocco.

[02:21] I didn't hear the laugh. Well, we, you think of something so sad, but no, we want, what's so saying or something says so you don't laugh man. We don't have to be, this is not a serious podcast, this is a very funny podcast. Maybe she should take the microphone. So anyway, uh, the podcast, uh, the name will be The Lineup, right? And and there will be other

[02:55] products as well in The Lineup, and normally in surfing, uh, I like the name because in surfing the lineup is basically lining up for your turn on the wave, right? And... Tomas "Tom" Acherer: The foilers come last. Michi Rossmeier: Oh yeah, we've noticed that. Tomas "Tom" Acherer: That's true actually. Michi Rossmeier: I didn't think about that. So here, the foilers come first. Pretty cool. So anyway, and The Lineup, how the other meaning of The Lineup in my new project is that riders like you, but also every other rider, line up their skills, their physical abilities, their body and their mind to create some peak performance states, right?

[03:43] So, Rocco, we know each other already, but quickly let me know your name, where you're from, and where's your home spot. It would be great. Rocco Sotomayor: So first of all, thank you for inviting me. I'm Rocco Sotomayor, I train and live my whole life in Lake Garda. I compete in the GWA Wing Foil Tour and I compete for Duotone and Ion.

[04:08] I freestyle so having fun out there, waves, wind and yeah. Michi Rossmeier: Pretty much. Nice, nice. Cool. Aleksander "Aleks" Acherer: Yeah, I'm Aleksander Acherer, I also wing for the GWA, I compete. I also ride for Duotone, Ion and Quiksilver.

[04:25] Tomas "Tom" Acherer: Hi, so I'm Tomas Acherer, the twin brother of Aleks. Michi Rossmeier: Oh really? Holy shit! Tomas "Tom" Acherer: It's pretty hard to tell, but just heads up. Yeah, I'm from Austria. Also, we started winging Lake Garda with Rocco actually. Like, we had the first sessions with him. Learned almost everything from Michi until we got better than him.

[04:44] Michi Rossmeier: Thank you. Tomas "Tom" Acherer: Yeah, and then started competing and then just traveling the world. Michi Rossmeier: Nice, good, good lives. Great. Tommy, let me ask you. So, yeah, I mean, yeah, we know each other for a while. So this is very funny. But tell me what was your, so what was your best results or your, well, also your favorite results so far that you did? What do you remember? Tomas "Tom" Acherer: Yeah I mean the best part was probably my first place in Brazil in Jeri. Yeah it's just like the perfect comp for me, goofy kicker, so amazing. I have like huge advantage against everybody like because the others are mainly regular. Ah so yeah it was just my event, I don't know, I just

[05:27] sent it. Michi Rossmeier: Yeah we saw that you just sent it, that was pretty cool. And and you were, you were second there right, that was must have been the pretty. Tomas "Tom" Acherer: Yeah it's a special thing sharing with the brother, second place in first. Michi Rossmeier: And super sick. Tomas "Tom" Acherer: Super sick. Michi Rossmeier: I remember the videos. So that was the best moment you're, not remember so far from? Tomas "Tom" Acherer: Yeah probably so, hope more Brazil comes this year. Michi Rossmeier: Nice nice. Aleks, uh how was it for you, what's your favorite best result competing or whatever you like? Aleksander "Aleks" Acherer: I like competing like 50 50. It's fun but also pretty stressful but the most fun competition was also probably Brazil

[06:09] of course, goofy kickers was just nice. Also the youth event in Costa Brava was pretty nice to get world champion. Michi Rossmeier: Oh yeah, it was super challenging with like five knots of wind, but it was pretty nice. Yeah, cool, cool. Ah, so you don't have many winning things. I remember that. That was very sportive. That was amazing. How was it? You broke the wing? Aleksander "Aleks" Acherer: Yeah, I I popped the wing on backmob again. Michi Rossmeier: Oh, the second one in this competition.

[06:40] Aleksander "Aleks" Acherer: Rocco's wing. This is gonna after Ricky. I popped Rocco's wing, then took my brother's wing and then just won it. Michi Rossmeier: That's pretty cool. It was amazing. How was that?

[06:52] You couldn't win or I don't know how was that? Why did you give it to him? Tomas "Tom" Acherer: I won against him in the semifinals. Michi Rossmeier: Ah, you were not in the same two men. Tomas "Tom" Acherer: Right. And then he was in the loser final and then he only had a chance to get third and then he just gave up his third place and I went for the first.

[07:11] Michi Rossmeier: Of course. Pretty cool, huh? Tomas "Tom" Acherer: Yeah. Michi Rossmeier: That's the history. Last year, I remember. I saw that. And also the wings popping. But well, it's competition, right? And yeah, that happens. Do you break a lot of wings otherwise? Aleksander "Aleks" Acherer: Not anymore. Last year used to be a lot, but it's getting better now. Michi Rossmeier: Which move you broke a lot?

[07:34] Aleksander "Aleks" Acherer: Backmobs, really a lot. And Palaos probably. Michi Rossmeier: Palaos also, yeah? Aleksander "Aleks" Acherer: The double ones or something. Michi Rossmeier: Yeah. It's gonna be careful doing those, learning those. Rocco, what was your... Tomas "Tom" Acherer: Here, you take it. Or you... Rocco Sotomayor: Yeah, take this.

[07:50] Michi Rossmeier: Rocco, what was your favorite so far? Rocco Sotomayor: For me, my highlight result was final in the Tarifa Wing Pro. Where I did fourth and the same in the same heat with these guys. That was super fun, I mean it was my first year of competing and yeah, hopefully many more. Michi Rossmeier: Nice nice. And you, you all three are now Duotone international team. Rocco Sotomayor: Yes. Michi Rossmeier: Pretty cool, traveling the world. You were 19, 18, 18.

[08:19] You're the same age. How funny. That's you. It's pretty cool. Rocco Sotomayor: We go to Lake Garda? I mean, it's pretty common between us. It's pretty cool. Michi Rossmeier: Yeah. That's true actually. Yeah, so you started, you all started at Lake Garda, you too. Rocco Sotomayor: Yeah, of course.

[08:41] Michi Rossmeier: Yeah, I started. Rocco Sotomayor: No, yeah, yeah, I mean I lived in Lake Garda, I was windsurfing before and I just saw so many people winging, you these twins out there. I was training windsurfing and just struggling, seeing the guys signing every sign so. So we started with your camps, playing with these guys and yeah, it was super fun back then. Super sick winds, south winds, north winds and when you...

[09:05] Yeah, pretty fun times in the world. Michi Rossmeier: How do you feel? Because you are there most of the time, right? You live there? Rocco Sotomayor: Yeah. Michi Rossmeier: So how... And you guys also, but you lived in Tarifa now for a while, right? And before you were a lot of the lake, but for you especially, how is training at Lake Garda giving you like advantage or disadvantages compared to others who live around the world

[09:33] and travel around? Rocco Sotomayor: Yeah I mean you're traveling now. Michi Rossmeier: Yeah, more, right? Rocco Sotomayor: But I mean in the beginning it was super fun because it's like Lake Garda is super famous as a spot and windsurfing, I come from windsurf, like everybody knows it, it's always full of people, full of competition, but now that, that was quite high you know, it's like there's nobody training, like to train with the wind is quite light for our conditions, I mean it's always big wings and the competition are already looking like 40 knots, 35 knots, so now it's getting quite, not saying boring, but it's quite hard to send it and

[10:03] keep up with the training, but I mean I always travel around going with these guys and sending it all together so yes that's good. Michi Rossmeier: Ah so for the new big air moves you need power. Rocco Sotomayor: I mean, competitions also are, yeah. I mean, sometimes I was there two weeks ago, I was like the morning, like 45 knots, super good for bigger. And this massive kickers for a lake. It was impressive. But you know it, like you cannot go on with one time like that every month you know, you need some consistency and right now especially winter

[10:36] is quite hard to find it, sometimes it's really good in the morning with big kickers but yeah you need some more time in the water than what Lake Garda offers you right now but yeah winter stuff right. Michi Rossmeier: Yeah cold and. Rocco Sotomayor: Yeah I mean south wind, south wind is the main thing of Lake Garda, it comes in summer maybe May, July and maybe May or June but right now it's getting quite not so good.

[11:02] Michi Rossmeier: It's getting better, spring is coming right? Rocco Sotomayor: Yeah, yeah also it's getting warmer because can be really cold in the winter. I mean hoodie, gloves also that you know. Michi Rossmeier: Yeah, yeah but good you are now traveling a lot. Rocco Sotomayor: Yeah, yeah, boy shorts no more 5-4s and inside I don't have any hoodie in my suitcase right now so it's gonna be the coldest but cool. Michi Rossmeier: Uh let, let me ask, uh Aleks quickly, Aleks what was your, what is your favorite, it's difficult question, probably what's your favorite spot so far? Aleksander "Aleks" Acherer: Favorite spot so far probably either Brazil or Hood River. Yeah both are pretty good for

[11:44] goofy riders, good kickers, strong wind, just nice to be here, super consistent wind also, most of the days Brazil is every day the same so that's pretty nice to train, board shorts or super warm right yeah it's pretty nice. Michi Rossmeier: That's pretty cool, Brazil over to Hood River, is for both directions right, it's good for both or better for goofy uh defense? Aleksander "Aleks" Acherer: It's usually really good for both, sometimes in the good conditions it's better for goofy, sometimes better for regular, just depends but it's really good for both sides. Michi Rossmeier: Where did you go

[12:18] always to ride or most of the time? Aleksander "Aleks" Acherer: Always we went to the hatch every day. Michi Rossmeier: Yeah yeah a lot of winging going on there. Aleksander "Aleks" Acherer: Yeah a lot of winging, a lot of downwinding, it's pretty cool there. Michi Rossmeier: Yeah pretty cool, cool. Tell me, you're, you're the only one who is not injured at the moment. Tomas "Tom" Acherer: Yes, that's true, taking care of those boys. Michi Rossmeier: Very good, very good. You're training for all of them. Tomas "Tom" Acherer: Yes. Michi Rossmeier: So, um, so it's to go a little bit in the direction of the lineup, like these three pillars that we have. Do you, um, it's very funny,

[13:00] I think the question is very funny now, do you train, do you go to the gym and stuff? Tomas "Tom" Acherer: I should be going. I mean I was going but then because of all the traveling it's always so hard because like always new places

[13:14] and finding a gym but I also don't want to do like just weight training, it's more like injury prevention training I want to do and like flexibility, it's a little bit hard without a trainer

[13:26] but I mean I'm gonna start to do it now because I have to, I don't want to get injured like those two so yeah I might have to start, just get a training plan, get things explained to me, Kuro here so he's treating those two and also I can ask him everything I need

[13:43] so yeah I should be going to the gym soon. Michi Rossmeier: No I didn't want to say you should go to the gym, I was just thinking do you do training or like, would you, what I say, I was just what you said actually, the the flexibility training and all this a little bit preparation. I have to say I was never going to the gym also and I I competed for many, many years. But I always felt that if I do warm up properly on the water,

[14:10] even if I don't do like shoulders, whatever, on the beach first, and I go on the water and I ride very chilled first, you know, then I actually warm up and so on. And if I do a bit of stretching in the evening, then that helps me a lot. So if you ride so much, then of course you train a lot as well. But you are many times one-sided also, right?

[14:32] Your goofy rider, you do, you do any tricks that way? Tomas "Tom" Acherer: I can do a Palao backflip and front flip but on the other side. Michi Rossmeier: Really? Tomas "Tom" Acherer: Yeah but I don't do it sometimes for fun. Michi Rossmeier: I thought you don't even have foot straps on the other side. Tomas "Tom" Acherer: I don't, I don't but every time I have to go shooting on both sides so I just if I'm bored I just do it like for example in Dakhla first regular front loop. Michi Rossmeier: Thank you. I want to check out the dogfish from Tommy.

[15:01] Tomas "Tom" Acherer: Yeah. The vehicle is a big ass backslap. Yeah. I backslap super hard. Michi Rossmeier: Okay. Tomas "Tom" Acherer: Yeah, I was a dare.

[15:10] We did like dares to do tricks and I dared me to do a regular front loop. Yeah, I tried. I just backslap super hard. It's difficult, but yeah, I know the motion the other way. So I thought it couldn't be that hard. But yeah, it's quite different.

[15:25] Michi Rossmeier: That's pretty funny. That's very funny. Yeah so it is very cool that you say that because um so how did you go, you just thought okay I can do it the other way so I will try it? Tomas "Tom" Acherer: I mean I kind of knew what to do with my like hands so I just went for it and send it, it went good, I kind of like when is the rotation but yeah I just didn't have any height it was just like I pulled in, moved a little bit and then it full back slam. Michi Rossmeier: It's funny, it's very funny. Well but you tried and you uh I mean you do crazy tricks

[15:58] right? Tomas "Tom" Acherer: So yeah I mean I like, I'm only riding goofy yeah I don't even have the footstrip normally on the other side, I should be having to be like more both sides but it's just this sport is going so fast we have to train one side super hard so we can keep up with everything so it's kind of hard to find time to train the other direction. Michi Rossmeier: Is it? Tomas "Tom" Acherer: Yeah because you're only pushing one side super hard can be a trick a new trick every day so always push harder in one direction you just can't keep up if you want to do both really. Michi Rossmeier: Okay interesting, interesting. We'll see in the future when it gets

[16:38] yeah when it is more uh when it will come to be a bit important to be both sided maybe you know like in windsurf. Yeah well maybe there's moves coming that need both, need you I don't know maybe they need to take off in one side or something I don't know maybe there's a little bit or neither the other side. Tomas "Tom" Acherer: Yeah like Lukas Lam he does some tricks one direction some others. Michi Rossmeier: That is very funny. Tomas "Tom" Acherer: Yeah some riders that do some trick for westland. Michi Rossmeier: Are that is very funny yeah because that's not so frequent that somebody is having actually really selective moves on one side and

[17:15] the others on the other side so yeah. Tomas "Tom" Acherer: But it also kind of limitates him because he does 720s in one direction the Palao nada one and if he wants to do a Palao seven it's like he has to learn some 20 in another direction again it's quite hard. Rocco Sotomayor: For me yeah I mean of course it has sometimes advantages because you can choose sometimes which side you want to jump and you always have a kicker no matter the spot so that's advantage but also has some disadvantages if you're both sided super, if you can do everything on both sides I think it's the best so yeah of course but yeah this is

[17:50] Michi Rossmeier: Is there anyone, you don't know anyone right? Rocco Sotomayor: I don't know anyone who does everything both sided kind of everything

[18:07] Tomas "Tom" Acherer: competition before you do a good trick for the competition on the other side it takes time but by the time you finish completing that trade five new tricks came out

[18:20] Michi Rossmeier: so how do you do it? Uh maybe let, uh let Aleks talk a little bit about, so um it's very interesting because you say there's like a lot of new tricks every I don't know every week or something right, um what do you do when you see a new trick, how do you do it, how do you approach it, just try it immediately? Aleksander "Aleks" Acherer: You just try it, you don't even, you watch the video maybe a few times and then you just try it and you have to figure it out for yourself. I cannot watch a video a hundred times and then do it like the guy in the video, I need to figure it out by myself how to do it. Yeah

[18:58] it's also for some guys who have different styles they just figure it out by themselves and I mean you see it after the first time you try it maybe you film it then you look at it at home and go like ah I do this a little bit different and it works better and then just keep doing it for a long time and you have it. Michi Rossmeier: And you have it. Aleksander "Aleks" Acherer: You should have it. Michi Rossmeier: You should have it right. Nice. Every time it works, every time or what? Aleksander "Aleks" Acherer: Not every time but sometimes. Michi Rossmeier: That's good. Um so yeah so you see the and what do you do when you um

[19:35] because you guys are at the top right, I mean you are not just doing tricks that came out by that somebody else invented, you are inventors now, you're at the top, so what do you do, how do you invent new stuff, how do you think about these things? Aleksander "Aleks" Acherer: Depends, some things you can just add a rotation maybe or like add a 360 but when I did like the Palao toss at 540s I just saw a video from Chucho Nonnot in Punta Paloma where he did a Palao and he didn't change his hands and he just did the tag right. Michi Rossmeier: No. Aleksander "Aleks" Acherer: The attack right after and I saw that the hands

[20:16] went like this perfectly so I thought maybe try it in the air and then me my brother tried it in Greece in the air and it kind of worked really good so we also tried it switch and it worked both ways so that was kind of cool to figure out like that but I think normally it's just I don't know adding stuff adding stuff trying to be creative. Michi Rossmeier: Yeah yeah. Tomas "Tom" Acherer: One time Aleks like crashed the backflip he just went too much upwind or something happened and like the wing stalled and I kind of saw that that I could do a 540 after with a hand change in the air

[20:52] and not grabbing a cross grab like I seen Malo Guénolé do it. And yeah then you just I tried and it worked way better than than grabbing crosshands because I was always eating shit when I was doing normal and then yeah it was also one of the tricks that helped me win Brazil just because I saw Aleks crash I figured it out really good. Michi Rossmeier: That's fun, sometimes from crashes you just something weird happens you like get an idea of what you could do. Tomas "Tom" Acherer: But otherwise you just think about something you try and find out what happens usually ends bad but sometimes it works. Michi Rossmeier: That's pretty cool yeah so yeah that brings me to one thing Rocco let me ask you because you know when you try these new tricks and there's no way you don't

[21:42] sometimes crash hard right and um how do you go about that because there's people and it's probably not you guys but there's people who crash hard and then they never try something again or they you know they they are scared or or so how how do you go about that how do you keep going? Rocco Sotomayor: I mean when I was starting I mean the first summer I was properly wing foiling I was learning new tricks. I mean, I broke my arm on the front flip. And then, you know, that was like, I still didn't compete.

[22:18] I was not at the level three. I was just doing some tricks. And that quite stopped me quite a bit on that trick. At least I had a mental block because, you know, after probably my third proper trick, I just destroyed myself. And that took me some time, pretty much a year. In fact, I did my first front flip last year while I was already doing Palao back loops and stuff.

[22:40] and uh that was a mistake took me too long, now for example I sent a double front flip last week and I'm not afraid I'm gonna do it straight away as soon as I go back in the water, it's different it's different things that you know, now I just injured my muscle last time I broke my arm but it's just if you if you do it like in a year you're gonna say like I could have just done it last year when I came back it doesn't matter it doesn't mean nothing I mean eventually you have to do it it's a new trick so I think you just gotta grow some balls and send it.

[23:13] Michi Rossmeier: That's how you did it, that's how I learned it. Rocco Sotomayor: I mean sometimes it doesn't need to be a broken bone or something you can just back slap so hard you just see stars or from a normal trick that you usually do and then. Michi Rossmeier: Yeah that's what I wanted to ask actually like I didn't even I remember when broke the arm and when actually also those two guys were with you. Rocco Sotomayor: Yeah yeah yeah they they they helped me they got some stories you guys. Michi Rossmeier: Yeah um but I remember yeah and this is something but I I mean I didn't really um mean to go for that but so in that moment so you, how would you say

[23:54] when was the moment or how did you go finally then doing it you were like just I mean like over it or or how was it like you just like last year for the front flip like example? Rocco Sotomayor: I saw Ducho which is a upcoming athlete let's say yes starting to do competitions and he did a front flip and I was like man he doesn't have to do it you know and then I said I promised him as soon as he arrived to Tarifa here in Tarifa. Michi Rossmeier: Oh I remember that yeah. Rocco Sotomayor: Yeah if you do it I'll do it he he sent it he. So here I did, so he was quite like, you know, like he already had the feeling.

[24:31] I said, fuck, he did it. Now it's my turn. And it took 40 minutes just to film him, not landing and landing it. Then I just go for it. I went super, super low. Like I just got the head over the wing. And then the days later just going higher, higher, more comfortable, more like feeling myself with it. And then I got it.

[24:49] But sometimes maybe you do, let's say a Palao 720 and you do it for like a month. and then one time you get the bad gust you just start rotating like one more spin and you land stirring your face and then I mean it can hurt for the day you know but you have to go straight up also because you already do it you know you know how it is you know how the trick feels. Michi Rossmeier: Yeah yeah there's a new trick, you to also when there's new tricks you know you maybe you don't know you don't understand how it works

[25:27] Rocco Sotomayor: like for me the back mob was like kind of strange because I didn't know if I should grab the hand like the boom like this or like this because I saw people doing it both ways and then you just got discovered you know maybe for me I was working on a trampoline even though I think it didn't I just have to do it in the war and find out I mean if people are doing it both ways and both ways can work out so you just feel and just test and see which one is best for you. Michi Rossmeier: So you would say basically what happened was at some point you were like over this shit I have to do this. Rocco Sotomayor: Yeah

[25:57] because maybe in the first year I was not competing I was not having competition I said who makes me do it you know I broke my arm last time why do I have to redo it yeah but then I was starting to get good it was about time to start doing competition and front flip was one of the most basic tricks ever and still now is I mean if you don't do a front flip you're limited in so many ways because now there's front threes double front flips Palao front flips so much stuff or combos and uh then you have to do it then maybe there's there's people which maybe you're

[26:26] injured right now and you're out for six months and some tricks are coming out in six months you cannot lose time doing all of them if they're out of the like competition let's say there's tricks like they're super hard to do but there's other trick that replace those tricks in the competition you don't waste time training them at least for a time and then. Michi Rossmeier: So that's good Aleks. So that was good Rocco. Very good. Thank you. No, no, it's very interesting. It's very funny that you say that.

[26:56] Actually, so the main driver for you to finally do it was like just like can't be true like I get over with this shit and let's go. So that's it's a very good one.

[27:07] Rocco Sotomayor: It's about time man, you can't lose time. Let's go. Michi Rossmeier: Oh, very good. And Aleks, for you, you have the second break now, right? You had a break with your foot and now you have again the knee. Yeah, second break. It sucks, huh? Aleksander "Aleks" Acherer: It sucks. Michi Rossmeier: Yeah, it sucks. But what do you, I mean, you came back from the last one like amazing, right?

[27:31] Aleksander "Aleks" Acherer: Yeah. Michi Rossmeier: So how do you keep up the motivation or how do you feel about that? I know it sucks that you can't go, but how do you get prepared for when you can go again? I know you do physical training and so on, but how do you think about it? Aleksander "Aleks" Acherer: Now it kind of sucks seeing everybody out and stuff, but you always want to go and also after a long time you don't start to think so much about your leg or knee or I don't

[28:09] know what injury you have so much anymore. You just want to get out there. I usually do like one week, start slow, do like all the tricks that you did before, try them again until you can do them and then just fully send it. good new tricks and just go full send and then from there on just keep pushing and pushing but doesn't really stop you so much the injuries just takes a long

[28:34] time until you're back and everything feels weird and everything maybe you're a bit scared but otherwise it works pretty good. Michi Rossmeier: Well I saw that so you would say so well we all very hyped to go winging right so so that's why I guess the moment you get back on the water is like it's pulling you forward maybe. Aleksander "Aleks" Acherer: Yeah. Michi Rossmeier: And then of course you need to build up, you say you build up confidence again and you build up the feeling again, right?

[29:03] Aleksander "Aleks" Acherer: Yeah. The first time on the foil again, it feels so weird. Yeah. Feel the foil and it's like, I don't remember it like that. Kind of weird. But then you start to get the groove again.

[29:12] You know how the wing feels, how it pulls, how the foil does. and then everything starts to feel familiar again then you can just go all in all in again. Michi Rossmeier: That's pretty cool so yeah so um I hope this goes quick and you can you can go back on the water and um so for so one more one more question for you guys so when you are riding in a session or in a heat for example when you do you have times when you are feeling the motivation drop and you know like you don't want to keep going trying these tricks or whatever or something and and how do you

[29:51] go back to, you can give it to Tommy so we go a little last, so when you when you're riding right uh or it can be for example in a in a competition for example in a competition when you crash your first tricks or something or the first trick I remember doing that many times in my career so what do you think how do you how do you work with that? Tomas "Tom" Acherer: Crashing the first trick is like the worst I mean it's not the worst landing first is like usually the best is a confident boost but if you don't land it I usually never do tricks like two or three times in a row I usually go on

[30:31] what I have like in my head the three tricks I want to do so I repeat them back to back and I just like start off another one and usually I hopefully land that one I mean of course then you get more nervous but as soon as you get one jig on it's like then you start building up again but funny is when we got like seven attempts and not six and I crashed my first one I just think yeah he just started six attempts nothing happened. Michi Rossmeier: Interesting. Tomas "Tom" Acherer: but in the first rounds I don't know just try to not think overthink keep going if like if you would have landed and then it should

[31:06] the workout. Michi Rossmeier: Pretty cool, pretty cool. Well, this is also and then also in the, you know, I mean also when you're riding, when you're just riding and you're just crashing trick after trick, sometimes it happens, right? You're crashing a lot of tricks. What, how do you, what do you do? Tomas "Tom" Acherer: I don't know my ego doesn't let me go off the water I have to land it once I was learning double front flips in Mexico kept falling straight on my face and I didn't want to leave the water at least until I got one close or landed one.

[31:39] Just my ego, I can't... Or if he does something or Rocco, and I'm starting it, I'm not going out of the water until I land it. Because then they're going to tease me and I can't do it. Michi Rossmeier: He's smiling. That's funny.

[31:53] Oh, that's really funny. So yeah, okay. So you go, basically you're saying you're going head through the wall. This has to work. Tomas "Tom" Acherer: Yeah. Yeah. I'm sending it nonstop. Till it like works out. Sometimes it also doesn't work out, but at least I tried. But I don't know, just my ego, I can't like not do it. I have to, even though if I crash really bad, I have to do it again. I also think if I crash bad that I have to do another one because then I'm also scared and I might be scared of doing the trick because of the crash. It's also like kind of get your confidence back if you like do better after you're like okay I kind of got this not like ending the session with a really bad crash. I think that also helps.

[32:39] Michi Rossmeier: So you're not going like because so you're not even going for building up that confidence otherwise you're just going full on on this one. Tomas "Tom" Acherer: Yes, it's full send. It should work eventually. Michi Rossmeier: How about you Aleks? Do you do the same? Your brother's twins. So how do you go about it? Aleksander "Aleks" Acherer: Yeah, when I want to learn a trick and I don't get it, I just want to get it close. A good attempt, landing it would be the best thing. But sometimes it gets pretty angry on the water when it doesn't work out

[33:13] or the wind then turns pretty bad and you really want to do this. But I don't know, sometimes I just get so mad, I just say, okay, fuck it, I'll do the next day. Okay. And just go out, but sometimes I just have to stay. Because if I see him do it, I have to do it too. But normally it's not that big of a problem.

[33:33] Michi Rossmeier: No, no, of course, yeah, okay. So interesting, but you also go full on, I guess. Yeah. It has to work. And even if you're frustrated. Aleksander "Aleks" Acherer: Yeah, I have to do it.

[33:43] Michi Rossmeier: How about changing the frustration to motivation again? Aleksander "Aleks" Acherer: It doesn't work always. It's not easy. Michi Rossmeier: It's not easy. Aleksander "Aleks" Acherer: I have to anger and then you go. Michi Rossmeier: Okay, okay.

[33:53] So your motivation is full on. And you Rocco? How do you feel about that? Rocco Sotomayor: Yeah, I mean, pretty much the same. Now I'm starting to build up the confidence, you know. I'm like, pretty much now I did almost all the tricks finally.

[34:05] And with all backflips, all frontflips, all the most difficult tricks. So now I'm starting to build up more confidence than before than last year. But yeah, if I see them doing something else, I want to try. If I see somebody doing a new trick, which maybe they're on the other side of the world, I need to try it out just looking at their videos and... Yeah, sometimes you're just pissed off it doesn't work, you know.

[34:26] Frustration, maybe you're just not even focused and it really just doesn't work out. I mean, yeah, you can just do a trick, but if you keep landing on your face, it's not like you're afraid, but it's just you know you're frustrated, so you're not fully concentrated, at least for me. Michi Rossmeier: That's very interesting that you say that. So, okay, and then I have to ask you one more question.

[34:43] And so you have these sessions, you know these sessions, when you ride and everything just works. Yeah. Oh, yeah, they're smiling. So this is what actually what I am now I'm, you know, learning for years into this, and that's why I'm doing this.

[35:00] So you have these sessions when everything works, everything is easy, right? Even the more, a little bit more difficult things are easy. and, you know, in the moves, you even have time to think, maybe I can do something else, another trick. I mean, I remember that from windsurfing.

[35:14] So how is that for you? How does that feel? Rocco Sotomayor: I mean, that feels awesome. You know, for me, it was one of those sessions, like, really last week. I mean, pretty much I was coming from Lake Garda, like, not good wind, and I was just still doing all my tricks.

[35:26] So that's why I went for a double front flip. I mean, it was a good attempt. I just hurt myself at the end, but if you look at the video, it was perfect. I mean, when you have those days, it's just you have to do something new. new you know I mean you see you land that that though all those hard tricks like three times in a row four times a row five times a row and you have to do something else and if there's not

[35:46] something else and you just create something you just had a spin or something pretty sick. Michi Rossmeier: And how does it feel? Rocco Sotomayor: It's great it's just oh yes sir yes that's it. Michi Rossmeier: That's pretty cool. Rocco Sotomayor: Yeah yeah yeah then also you can try to see if always you can see something not going on you can land the trick but maybe the landing is not perfect and just get better, get better. And then eventually if you have it perfect, yeah, go for something else, a new thing that you still haven't done.

[36:14] And that's the best thing ever. It's a good session. You come back and you said, oh, I did everything I could have done. You know, sometimes you didn't do what you could have, maybe because also the wind, but it looks perfect outside. Then in the water, you may be also the wrong wing, the wrong material.

[36:29] And you're like, fuck, I didn't take advantage of the day, you know. And then when that day comes and you took the most out of it, it's like, it's a perfect feeling. Like you feel fulfilled, I guess. Michi Rossmeier: Pretty cool description. Yeah. Let Aleks say something.

[36:46] You also said you have, you know that feeling when... Aleksander "Aleks" Acherer: Yeah, it's the best feeling ever. Also when somebody else has a bad day and you just have the best day ever, it feels even better.

[36:58] Yeah, just when everything works, super nice. Michi Rossmeier: Yeah. Do you know how you do it? How you make it so that everything works? Aleksander "Aleks" Acherer: I don't know. Just like when you go out in the water and the wing is good size, good size wing, nice wind, not gusty. Just the first tricks you land them right away. Then you have good confidence and probably they end up being pretty good. Maybe that's how, I don't know.

[37:26] Yeah, it's just personal for everyone, no? Michi Rossmeier: Tell me, how is it for you? Because you were like, oh yeah. Tomas "Tom" Acherer: I mean, yeah, it's the best thing you can have. You learn everything, it's a confidence boost. And then I usually start getting sandy and I just do everything. Michi Rossmeier: Yeah, you just keep going, keep going. Tomas "Tom" Acherer: Yeah, I mean, that's like usually when you're out with friends, if it's good then everybody starts going crazy. And you also get like confidence boosts.

[37:54] If your friends are out there and they do crazy stuff, of course you're gonna follow. Like the time in Grand Canary after. Yeah, it's like one of the most fun and best sessions ever. We saw Malo attempt the double front. We all rigged up, it was like super late. All rigged up, all went out.

[38:11] Everybody was sending it. And we were just, some landed first try. Everybody was just getting close. New trick, super stoked. And it actually worked out pretty good, except for one, Charlie. But he got back, but it was just, when everything works, there's nothing better.

[38:30] Michi Rossmeier: Nice, very, very cool. Very cool. Rocco Sotomayor: Especially when you're in the comp, like that time. Like all the judges were like, oh, now we're going to do something crazy. Like that time in Grand Canaria was like competition period, you know, it was like... The day later, I think, maybe?

[38:44] Tomas "Tom" Acherer: No, it was the day before the comp. Rocco Sotomayor: The day before the comp, yeah. I remember all the judges looking at it, and they were expecting great stuff from the competition because you see all the riders doing something that, until the day before us, nobody thought that was possible.

[39:00] It's pretty much with all the tricks right now. I mean, some you see the vision, and some really double frontflare was like, it was possible, but it was quite far. And then just out of nowhere, everybody was sending it. It was pretty sick.

[39:14] It's so fun. Michi Rossmeier: Very good. Cool. So yeah, thank you. That was pretty amazing. So the last thing that you described, that's perfect peak performance flow state. And that's, you know, there's a lot of people searching for specifically that, how to produce it when you want it, not just when it happens. because yeah everybody like I also remember my all these these sessions there's like these sessions like what you're saying that you would probably remember for years right this session it's pretty amazing and yeah so that's

[39:55] pretty cool and for sure I will do more of that thank you all three for for this talk was very very interesting very nice and thank you and I hope that the people watching this will learn a lot from how the pros do it. Rocco Sotomayor: Let's hope so. Thanks for having us. Aleksander "Aleks" Acherer: Thank you. Tomas "Tom" Acherer: Cool. Michi Rossmeier: Nice guys. Super guys, it was very nice. Now that was fun and really interesting right now one thing that stayed with me especially was when Rocco explained his front flip mental block where he was almost a year already doing more

[40:51] difficult tricks but he couldn't get to the front flip and when he came to that point of saying I wasted almost a year can't be true let's go kind of enough is enough let's go and and then he could do it and I mean Rocco just became uh second place Tommy first place in the Leucate GWA world cup in uh 2026 so congrats guys very nice we have to do another episode talking about these results because I guess the ones you explained here are already outdated now right if this landed for you share it with a rider who you think it resonates with and if you want to know more

[41:38] about the method the techniques and everything come back and see you soon this is the line up

[41:50] later